Thursday, April 27, 2006

Guest Blogger Blondesurferdude: Hear No Color, See No Color

V Note: For those of you who didn't get all your racist comments, general bitching and whining in yesterday, here is Blondesurferdude to continue the charge. I promise, I'll post something "worthless" (read: interesting) soon.

Yesterday, Maime posted a clever (read: worthless) piece on how to hook up with black guys (it turns out - shockingly - you put on something revealing and go where they hang out). Needless to say, I wasn't that interested. But then gang warfare broke out in the comments section over what it means to be racist. At risk of inciting further bloodshed, I have decided to exercise my power as a guest-blogger to bring order to the comments section of V's blog (read:show you all that I'm right).

Disagree with this statement if you dare: Revealing truth cannot be morally wrong. This seems so obvious. If it's truth, how can it be objectionable morally? Even if it's an "uncomfortable truth", like the fact that human males produce the same amount of sperm with each ejaculation as a mouse, or the fact that the Earth is not the center of the universe after all, or the fact that NASCAR is popular in the United States. It cannot be immoral to discover, consider, and relate these facts, or any others. Yet consistently in our public discourse, facts are censored from public speech because they are found morally objectionable.

I noticed this first in the national debate over Larry Summers' speech on the lack of tenured female faculty in the math and sciences at Harvard. Summers gave three explanations - 1) women spend time having kids, at a crucial stage of career development, 2) Gender discrimination in hiring practices, citations, and publications, and 3) the possibility (backed by a fair amount of scientific evidence and theory) that men had a wider distribution of intelligence, meaning that a higher percentage of men are very, very smart (though there are also more very, very dumb men, and the mean is approximately the same for each sex).

The media, and a number of academics, went into hysteria, in particular over the third point. I naively awaited a detailed, thoughtful, national discussion of the scientific evidence concerning this possibility, followed by more active research, and finally a resolution of the question. What followed instead was insistent claims that to suggest such an idea is evidence of the worst kind of sexism. Meanwhile, no one reviewed the scientific evidence. The amount of hand-wringing over the issue has meant a lack of funding for research in the area. Now we may never have a conclusive answer.

This couldn't be a more idiotic state of affairs. Is it sexist to research and show that women are, on average, shorter than men? Of course not. The only difference is that it is so blatantly obvious that the average man is taller than the average woman that even the most politically correct would have a hard time keeping a straight face while making any claim to the contrary. It's not morally wrong to realize that men are taller than women. It's wrong to discriminate against individual women because of it. Likewise, it's not morally wrong to wonder whether male intelligence is more variable than female intelligence.

Now in shifting to our national discussion of race, I want to make it clear that I'm now discussing sociological fact as opposed to biological fact. It turns out (we know this thanks to extensive study by Richard Lewontin) that there are very few biological differences between human races. There are obviously some differences in skin color, facial features, and hair texture, but genetically, the variation across races is miniscule compared to the variation within races.

But it remains true that in the United States, different races have remarkably different socio-economic profiles. Blacks are much more likely than whites to have a criminal record, have dropped out of high school, have an illegitimate child, or be unemployed. People think that saying this is racist. It's not. It's fact. Facts cannot be racist. To pretend otherwise - to be "colorblind" and pretend that American society has nothing to do with race - is moronic and counterproductive.

Acknowledging characteristics of a population do not require imputing those characteristics to every individual in the population. Here's an analogy. Say you have two CD burners; one that produces CDs flawlessly, the other makes a good CD 2/3 of the time, but 1/3 of the CDs it makes don't work. If you have a CD from the faulty burner, do you throw it away? Of course not - it could be one of the good ones. But at the same time, shouldn't you get the bad burner fixed? Or should you insist against all evidence to the contrary that it works just as well as the other one?

So let's admit that the black population in the United States, as a whole, is in pretty bad shape. Because of extensive scientific research (not moral fortitude), we know that this is not due to genetic differences. Why are blacks in America doing so poorly? What would make them graduate high school, avoid criminal activity, and find stable jobs? As long as the premise of the question is taboo, we'll never know the answer.


Blogger Jamy said...

There has been plenty of sociological research directed at answering the questions posed in the last paragraph. My own work is related to that topic.

Of course, there is no definitive answer, but it has to do with poverty, discrimination and the inflexibility of class. And, it should be pointed out, that blacks in the US have steadily improved their lot over the last several decades. Things are still bad, but they have been worse.

I think you made this clear, but I would like to emphasize that conditional probabilities, as true as they are, have nothing to do with individual outcomes.

10:33 AM  
Blogger Sean said...

"I think you made this clear, but I would like to emphasize that conditional probabilities, as true as they are, have nothing to do with individual outcomes."

Exactly, everything comes down to INDIVIDUAL CHOICES made in life. This is what Cosby has been preaching for years. Of course, he pisses people off because he's saying something many people don't want to hear. Especially the professional race hustlers such as Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and the like. If the poverty pimp mobile broke down, they'd have to get a real job.

11:40 AM  
Blogger Blondesurferdude said...

jamy -
Thanks for the comment. I was kidding when I said I wouldn't read them. I believe that this research should go where the facts lead it. For instance, public debate (and even some research) goes like this: blacks (or women, in the case of the Summers debacle) must be equal in every way, therefore wage differences must be due to discriminatory hiring practices.

And so there's all this time and effort put into eliminating bias in the workplace. Which is great, and wonderful, and worthwhile. But even if this bias reversed (with affirmative action, for instance), unemployment rates and per capita incomes are not going to go back to the mean because of differences in family wealth, education levels, criminal records, etc..

As far as steady improvement, if you could post some time series data - or a link to it - that would be awesome. Do you mean they have "improved their lot" in absolute terms (for instance, real per capita income rising) or relative terms (black per capita income divided by white per capita income)?

11:50 AM  
Blogger Blondesurferdude said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

11:50 AM  
Blogger Blondesurferdude said...

Sean -
It's not ALL about individual choices. If it were ONLY about individual choices, then those unemployment rates, life expectancies, etc., would be INDEPENDENT of race. Which they aren't. So there is something systematically making blacks less successful than the rest of the country. I don't know whether Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have benefited the black cause or not, but the underachievement of blacks is not ONLY due to independent, individual decisions.

12:04 PM  
Anonymous Anon Again said...

"Individual decisions" do not tell the whole story. Everyone can't "decide" to become a surgeon.

That said, the thorny subject of IQ has been left out of this mix. The book "The Bell Curve" a few years back postulated that the IQ of the Af-Am community is some 15 points lower than average. (On a somewhat unreleated note, Jews supposedly have IQs of 15 points higher than average).

If this is true (and I've included a link about some research), it's a cultural problem, IMO. When white women choose men with whom to breed, social standing and therefore smarts are usually considered paramount. Women in the black community have different standards of what makes a man desireable. Therefore, they are not pumping out kids of doctors, but kids of gangstas. And IQ IS genetic. (This sort of "inverse" breeding can also be seen in the Italian-American and Latino communities, where brawn and "gangsta" machismo are valued over brains. I'm a member of at least one of these communities and will acknowledge our IQ to be substandard for the most part. The idea that being bookish equals "acting white" is not just a black thing.)

Here is a link about some research being quelled:

12:25 PM  
Blogger Blondesurferdude said...

I couldn't disagree more with the last comment. IQ is, in part, genetic, but even if it is true that white women find intelligence more attractive than black women, there isn't even close to enough generations gone by to make any difference in the gene pool of the two races. It's not even close. Besides the fact that 1) there are serious questions about what IQ tests actually measure, and 2) scores aren't very robust to different test-taking situations. For instance, black students tend to do significantly worse when they are told that the scores will be used to compare racial averages.

The social value of education COULD be a large factor culturally in encouraging intelligent individuals to stay in school and find decent jobs. But there is no genetic difference in blacks and whites in terms of intelligence. If you want to make a big deal out of it, consider that poor whites (who are presumably, on average, less intelligent) have more children on average than rich whites. By your theory, whites should be the dumb ones.

12:40 PM  
Blogger Sean said...

BSD, I've always believed collectivism to be a farce. Although it has a powerful influence on many people. But that's their problem, not mine. I can recommend to you articles and books by Thomas Sowell ("Black Rednecks and White Liberals" is his latest book I think). He's one of the most brilliant economists around. He's a true black leader, as opposed to the Sharptons of the world. Too bad he doesn't get as much exposure. You may not agree with much of his political commentary, but if you like to get into the real, hard facts, you'll dig.

1:07 PM  
Blogger Sean said...

God dammit. Sorry.

1:10 PM  
Blogger Jamy said...

But Sowell is mostly just a good writer and uses data (aka facts) very selectively.

Re: time series data. I don't have any off hand, but income among blacks has definitely increased in absolute terms (I'm not sure about relative)--but these data can easily be found in the Census or in the CPS (current population survey).

The problem is that larger social forces cause the relatively disadvantaged position of African Americans in US society--but the consequences of those social forces are negative individual outcomes. So, to change those individual outcomes all we can think of are individual level interventions--that may be all there are.

We want to stay away from calling people stupid though. Please.

2:42 PM  
Blogger Blondesurferdude said...

Did I call somebody stupid? I can't remember. Anyway, what's relevant in this case (to me, it seems) is RELATIVE data. If per capita income among blacks is rising, but at a rate less than or equal to the population as a whole, well...that's not too impressive to me. Likewise, crime has been declining nationally for a decade or so after the highs of the early 90s, but that crime is still disproprtionally black. That's a victory for crime fighting and civil order, but not for the position of blacks in America.

Sean -

I've never read anything by Sowell, so I can't really comment on him specifically. But he does seem to be more of a well-informed (and talented) journalist than an economist. I can definitively reject the notion that he's "one of the most brilliant economists around." Maybe around the public eye, I don't know.

In any case, I'm not sure how you think collectivism is tied to anything that I was saying. Your original point was, "it doesn't matter if you're black, your individual decisions and capabilities can still lead you to success." Which is true for an individual, but it obscures the larger point, which is that blacks on average are not as successful as the rest of the country, and the reason is not that they're just bad people, or that they're just lazy people.

If I were starting a search for how to ameliorate this problem, here's where I'd start: 1) public schools, which are in general abysmal, and where blacks are much more likely to be, compared to whites. 2) health care, which is only provided to the rich, the employed, and the elderly in this country. I would guess that's one of the reasons black life expectancy is so low in this country, and might affect other barometers of social success as well. 3) Law enforcement/infrastructure - Start putting bright street lights on every neighborhood, and make sure there are competent policemen available that care about keeping crime down, even in the worst neighborhoods. DC is a great example of this. Try talking to anyone who has served on a jury for a crime committed in SE DC. Those are all PUBLIC policy issues.

I don't know whether they would make a difference, but if I were in a position to influence any one of them, I would want to find out.

3:33 PM  
Blogger Sean said...

BSD, all you have to do is look him up in Wikipedia. I assure you he is a brilliant economist. He just happens to be a good writer also. There are some people who can't walk and chew gum at the same time, I know. This guy cuts to the chase, I think you'd appreciate that much.

3:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

BlondeSurferDude (your name alone clearly represents what type of person you are), it is an honor to meet someone that is so immersed in the black culture that you have spent years educating yourself in order to become an expert on us poor,uneducated, unemployeed, criminal, baby-having black people. What? You are not an expert? You don't say!

The fact that you can look up stats on the internet and come up with lame ass analogies to back up your already racist beliefs is truly breathtaking.

In fact, I really appreciate all you white people telling me how us black people are.
Who knew that we are, (in your words)"... in pretty bad shape."
Hot damn! I need to get out there and tell all the black people I know that we are not truly representing our people because it doesn't matter how successful we are...we are just some poor, uneducated, criminal, welfare niggers. Here I was thinking that it was merely all minorites and poor people who were in bad shape...but for you to (and Jamy) to point out how fucked my people are is very nice of you.

All those things you say about black know how you said, "Blacks are much more likely than whites to have a criminal record, have dropped out of high school, have an illegitimate child, or be unemployed. People think that saying this is racist. It's not."
Yes it is, Blondesurferdude (god, I hate your name). Have you never been in the south? All those wonderful facts you said about all us black folks could be said about your people as well. Oh and let's not for get about the Latino community. (but they are just the new balck aren't they, blondesurferdude?_

The only people that have it made in the US is rich white men. I wonder what you are Blondesurferdude.

Bottom are racist and very prejudice. You don't have to wear a white robe to racist...because you are. You can deny it all you want...but you speak like one. You can find all the "facts" you want to back up your beliefs and I can find just as many to back up mine. Anyone can. Facts are facts when they are Convenient for use. Someone can find any amount of "facts" to back up their beliefs. Have you forgotten about the war going on? People on every side have their own set of facts.

Do you even have any black friends? Are the only successful black people you know are the ones you see on TV?
The thing is, Blondesurferdude, it makes you sleep better at night thinking that you know who the bad people are...and for you they are balcks (and probably a number of other minorities).

I would love for you to share your expertise with a bunch of educated, non-criminal, successful, family-oriented black people (yes, there IS such a thing). I wonder how they would view you and your "facts".

I for one think you are full of shit and someone who hides behind their fear of black people with "facts". You just want to be right and you care how wrong you really are...just as long as you can feel superior.

I bet you think all Jewish people are selfish and money hungry that control the media. I am sure you can find lots of facts to back that up as well. Or how about how Asians are bad drivers and better at math? Oh I could go on and on...and I am sure you could too, Blondersurferdude. Couldn't you?

You speak so intelligently about things you really don't know about. You ask all these questions, well, how are you helping? I am sure some poor, future criminal, black bastard would love to be shamed into success by you.

3:55 PM  
Blogger Sean said...

Ha Ha Chase! I think he just needs to read a little Thomas Sowell. Have you heard of him? Don't you love it when white people tell you what's up? ;-) Read "Black Rednecks and White Liberals". You'd really find it interesting methinks.

4:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The name is familiar, Sean. I will look up his book.
Oh yes, it is so nice to be told how my people are by some 24 year old ass that calls himself Blondesurferdude.

I'm going to go pick my cotton now.

4:08 PM  
Blogger Sean said...

Don't forget your gloves. Oprah likes her employees to have nice, soft hands. LOL!

4:15 PM  
Blogger Blondesurferdude said...

Do I really have to respond to this comment? Is Chase the only person that doesn't understand what I'm saying? Chase, I think you're assuming that I think that black people have lower employment rates, higher dropout rates, etc., because I think they're bad or lazy or evil. Which is pretty much the exact opposite of what I'm saying. I wonder if you even read anything that I wrote.

The great thing about "facts" is that you CAN'T use them to say whatever you want. For instance, if I wanted to assert that black people are genetically inferior to white people, I would be hard-pressed to find any scientific evidence to support me. Because there isn't any. It's not true. The genetic differences between races are very small compared to the differences within races.

It's simply true that the average black person is poorer than the average white person. There's no amount of hand-wringing on my part or name-calling on your part that can make that untrue. Given this fact, we must consider 1) if we think this matters at all (I think it does), 2) why this is true, and 3) what can be done about it.

Southern whites are a good example of a group that used to be WAY behind the rest of the country, and is now only a little bit behind the country. Much of that advancement was due to massive infrastructure expenditure on the part of the federal government under the New Deal. Again, these were focused programs instigated by a government that acknowledged a structural regional difference and acted on it. Dropout rates, unemployment, and homicide rates are still all higher in the South than in the rest of the country. But it's a success story of sorts.

Anyway, I don't know if it's worth continuing a discussion with you, Chase. I think you're just determined to think that I'm a racist, so whatever. For what it's worth, I'm from the South, I'm half-Jewish, I'm not blonde, and I don't surf. The name thing is kind of a joke. I don't see how any of that should matter, but I'll have all my black friends vouch for me just in case.

4:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeah, why don't you have your black friends vouch for you. I love it when white people say, "I have black friends" when they are spouting some racist shit. You got cred, dog! How many do you have? How many have been to your house. I am sure you like to keep count for these exact moments.

Hey,...why don't you tell your black friends the "facts" that you put down here. I am sure they would appreciate it.

I read what you said. I understood what you said. However, I disagree with what you said.

We are not going to agree. I think you are ignorant. Which is to say, that I think you are mis-informed. And I think you are an ass because you come across that way.

You didn't have to respond to what I said. But you know WHY you did? 'Cause you want to be right. You have to be.
You want people to know how educated you are and how much you know.

Like I said, I would love for you to speak to a bunch of black people about your "facts". Of course you would probably get your ass handed to you (oh, you though I was going to say kicked right? 'Cause we are criminals, right?), by some black person that is more educated that you....but how could that be?

I must be making assumptions...although, i used your own words in my prior comment. But you know, I am uneducated, too busy popping out babies, and standing in the unemployment line to fully comprehend what you said.

Funny thing, I never said that I thought you said blacks ( people) were lazy and evil...interesting how YOU assumed that I was saying that.

5:22 PM  
Blogger Blondesurferdude said...

OK, you think I'm racist, fine. What about what I said do you disagree with? You disagree that per capita income is lower among blacks than among whites? You disagree that blacks drop out at a higher rate than whites?

5:26 PM  
Blogger Blondesurferdude said...

Why would I be surprised if a black person is more educated than me? I think the first comment on this page was - "I think you made this clear, but I would like to emphasize that conditional probabilities, as true as they are, have nothing to do with individual outcomes." I'm talking about POPULATION AVERAGES. That doesn't mean anything for an individual person.

5:28 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I believe that you are a racist, yes. I also believe that you don't think you are one. Racism nowadays is more subtle.

Yes, some black make lower than white people and overall we make less.
As far as kids dropping out of school I would say that is more of an economic thing rather than race. Anywhere where the population is poor, kids are less likely to finish school.
Are black leading the pack? I think it depends on what area you are in.

Blacks are a minority. We were oppressed in this country for hundreds of years (still are). We like to believe that we are all equal...but we aren't. All minorites are at a disadvantage as compared to whites...and if the minority is poor? Well, life is really tough. It's a struggle. We minorites struggle everyday. We have to pretend that we don't notice that no one sits beside us on the metro, that we are being followed in the store, that people look at us and make assumptions, like, "hey, they are probably a criminal, uneducated, unemployed, etc..." If people tell you that you are something for so long, you start to believe it. Some people give up rather than prove others wrong.

Your "facts" are not always what they seem. People distort research, they lie, they exaggerate, etc. Oh you are saying there is no conspiracy against blacks and minorities...but aren't there? The slave mentality is still alive and well my friend.
Why would the rich, white male majority want others having they same things as them? They wouldn't be/feel superior anymore. So, they let us think we are all equal, but then they don't afford us the same opportunities.

Here is the thing Dude, you present youself in a very elitist way. V says you are a nice very well could be. I don't know. But send all your black friends here to read your comments and post and then lets see how many remain your friends.

5:41 PM  
Blogger Blondesurferdude said...

I think you're just taking what I'm saying about a population and thinking that I apply that to a given individual. Which was never what I advocated. I'm simply stating, just as you are, that blacks in America "make less" than whites.

"Conspiracy" is a strong word, but the centerpiece of my argument is that there are social forces causing black people to fare poorly in the United States. Which seems to be what you believe, as well, no? Can we find something to agree on here?

You are right that poor people are less likely to finish school, but the causality works both ways, and principally in the other direction - people who don't finish school are likely to be poor.

I really think that we're saying pretty much the same thing, except you're offended that a white person is saying it. That would be like me getting offended if a New Yorker stated the fact that Southerners are, in comparison to the rest of the country, poor and uneducated, and wondered what could be done about that. But how could that offend me? It's true! It doesn't mean that this Yankee is assuming that I am an unemployed high-school dropout just because I'm from the South. The statement is about a population, not an individual.

5:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't think you are talking about an individual, I believe that you are talking about blacks. That is what you said, right? Blacks. You didn't say some, a few, a small said blacks. Which means all.

It is not because you are white, either, Dude. It is HOW you presented your argument.

Your argument throws suspicion on the whole black community.

I am tired of this subject. Let's move on. Agree to disagree or whatever.

I have lots of white friends...hell, I have even gone so far as to date them. It's my way of bring you down from the inside. :-)

6:08 PM  
Blogger Sean said...

Chase, you will LOVE the book I recommended....

Dude, I think what Chase MAY be saying is (well she said it) you come off as elitist. Black people don't walk around with a sign on their back that says "I need help". Successful people, no matter where they come from, got that way because they made sound choices. That's a fact you can take to the bank.

6:10 PM  
Blogger Blondesurferdude said...

How can it ever be elitist or racist to state facts that we all agree on? I really don't get it. Point to where I'm throwing "suspicion". I think Chase just doesn't know what I mean when I talk about "probabilities", "populations", and "individuals". Have you ever taken statistics, Chase? I'm not asking to be condescending, I'm asking because I honestly think you're not understanding the concept I'm trying to explain. The CD burner analogy is apt. When I say that the population statistics are irrelevant for a given individual, it's like saying that a CD could be completely functional, even if it's from the inferior burner - see what I'm saying? Here's another example - black people are much more likely to have the gene for Sickle Cell. Actually, screw that, let's talk about Jews. Jewish people are much more likely to be carriers of the Tay Sachs gene. If you're not Jewish, it's almost impossible that you are a Tay Sachs carrier. But for a given Jewish person, they might not be a Tay Sachs carrier. For that individual Jew, the population statistics are irrelevant.

I don't agree with your comment about successful people. You mean to tell me that Paris Hilton is successful because of the choices she made? Give me a break. There are three things that go into success in the United States: personal qualities/decisions, family wealth, and pure luck. And I don't know what the right order is. But there are plenty of very gainfully employed people out there who are lucky idiots from wealthy families. And yes, most of them are white. By extension, you believe that if someone is unsuccessful, it's their fault? It could be, of course, but I'm saying that luck and social circumstance play a huge role in determining socioeconomic status.

Chase -
I really care whether you have white friends and you shouldn't really care whether I have black friends. It's about the argument, not who are friends are.

6:25 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

First of all, DUDE, i was making a joke about me having white friends.

Secondly, this comment here,
"I think Chase just doesn't know what I mean when I talk about "probabilities", "populations", and "individuals". Have you ever taken statistics, Chase?", is a smack in the face.
But then again, DUDE, of course I never went to college nor taken statistics, therefore I have NO idea what terms like probabilities", "populations", and "individuals", are because as you stated, blacks are uneducated.

I's a don unnerstan those big words. I's jus a poh black womans. I's don e'en knows hows I's gots on dis here thing. I's so ignert. I's don know hows i even gots here. Oh masser mus'ave left his doh open. I's a don know hows i's make it through da day. I's cant e'en read. no i's jus sit here collectin' my welfares and having babies by criminal black men ans all. i's cant even read. i's just a poh ol nigger. i's hopin' you learn me mo' 'bout mys people. we's so fucked. i's so dumb. mister usin' big words, he knows he's to edumacated for me. "We shall overcome...."

6:41 PM  
Blogger Sean said...

Well how about not making very poor choices then? You know, many people ruin their chances with just one decision. BTW, to me Paris Hilton isn't a success, she's an embarrassment. Many wealthy kids end up dead/suicidal/depressed. It's mostly about choices my friend. Mostly hard work and time management. Whether you grow up in a rough urban neighborhood or a rural nowhereville, you have the choice to hang out on the street corner/parking lot or get a job/study your ass off. Race has nothing to do with it.

6:42 PM  
Blogger Blondesurferdude said...

This is completely useless. How many times do I have to explain this? ON AVERAGE, blacks are less educated than whites. That doesn't mean that an INDIVIDUAL black person isn't educated. It really isn't that difficult of a concept. But the distinction is at the heart of what we're arguing about, so if you are unable or unwilling to consider it, there's really no point in continuing.

6:45 PM  
Blogger Blondesurferdude said...

Sean -
Inherently, race has nothing to do with your decision-making ability. Just the fact of being white doesn't change your intelligence or work ethic or dependability in any way. So why are fewer black people successful? "Because they have made bad decisions" isn't really a good enough answer. We're already established that just being black doesn't make you make bad decisions. Yet there are these systemic differences in income between races. So what is it?

For this entire discussion we've been defining "success" as "high income, educated, etc.". You can't switch now to how tasteful someone's TV show is. Paris Hilton makes god knows how many millions of dollars a year. She might even have a degree from some shameless institution of higher learning. Hell, Yale University gave George Bush a diploma. Then he did coke for a while, ran a major league baseball team and a couple of private businesses into the ground, and became president. What were his spectacular decisions? Being the son of a US president is really the only one I can think of....I wish the world worked the way you think it does, but unfortunately, it does not.

6:53 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That is the smartest thing that you have said in the last 24 hours.

Oh and next time you present an argument, try not coming off as such a condescending, omniscient (oos, i's jus us'd a big word), elitist prick. But, hey, i am sure you are a nice guy. :-)
Tell your black friends I said HI!

I'm going home.

6:54 PM  
Blogger Blondesurferdude said...

The smartest thing I've said was that you never understood my point? Well, it was certainly accurate...but it wasn't that hard to figure out.

7:04 PM  
Blogger Sean said...

THe systemic difference was caused by white do-gooders like you. It's called the welfare state of the 60s. NEWSFLASH: Paying women to have kids was not a good idea. Talk about setting black people back, there was the silver bullet. OK, I'm done, V will come back and see the number of comments and think you started a race war :-)

7:12 PM  
Blogger Blondesurferdude said...

So, Sean, without welfare, blacks and whites would have equal per capita incomes? Your argument has SOME merit, but not nearly as much as you think it does. If you dismantled welfare tomorrow, besides being inhumane, it wouldn't bring about parity in per capita incomes, even over time. This is your claim, right?

7:20 PM  
Blogger Sean said...

God damn you, I said I was done. Look, you seem to really be interested in this. You do the research. The reason I referred you to Thomas Sowell is he will enlighten you about the real reasons behind the numbers. I figured a well respected black economist would have credibility with you on this subject. More credibility especially, compared with an anonymous person on the internet, like me. So enjoy.

7:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

When I said that was the smartest thing you said, I was referring to the fact that, "there's really no point in continuing."

But of course you would think that I was agreeing with you. Of course you thought that was saying that I didn't understand what you were saying. Of course. Ugh! Could you be more full of yourself?

1:25 PM  
Blogger O-FACE said...


9:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'd recommend checking out the website And please, don't bother posting comments about the name of the link until you take the time to look at it. And be sure to check out the interview at

Maime and Circle V may not mean any ill will, but the post does seem to be overcompensating in its attempt to show solidarity.

12:51 PM  

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